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Yan, tan, tethera

Posted by R. Berg on August 28, 2009 at 15:40

In Reply to: Yan, tan, tethera posted by Joe on August 27, 2009 at 22:00:

: : : "Yan, tan, tethera" posted by Henry,April 20 2004. Sounds like Welsh? Any response to possible Nordic origins? See musical "Music Man" and ref. to Native American Counting system in Oiwa-" I will now count in the native tongue- een, teen, pedera, pimp." Actual or faked up by playwright? Any experts in east coast Native American languages? .

: : There *are* no "possible Nordic origins", since these traditional shepherds' numerals derive from the pre-Roman Brythonic Celtic language, of which Welsh is of course the only living descendant. (There are many Nordic influences in Cumbrian culture, but Cumbria was also for centuries an outpost of Celtic language, as its name indicates.) You can see the numerals and their parallels in Celtic languages here, which puts the matter beyond question: en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/Yan_Tan_Tethera.
: : The idea in "The Music Man" that they come from an Indian language is just a joke. (VSD)

: I would not pass off the words in the Music man as not being accurate. It appears that they are, hint I worked on several Reservations in the West for quite a while with serveral diffrent nations (tribes).

: The words appear to not be Oiwa nor Ioway (Iowa) but are reproduced often in literature.

: One source says "Pylmouth Indians", however

: THE ANGLO-CYMRIC SCORE
: (Cymru is the
: Welsh name for Wales.)
: The Academy and literatureý - Page 438
: Language Arts & Disciplines - 1879

: The Anglo-Cymric Score. By AJ Ellis. (Reprinted for Private Circulation from ...
: If this view be correct, it follows that the 41 Anglo-Cymric " numerals are ...

: This and other books articles devote good proof that the words are likely early Welsh,so all this was fun.

: Hey my Mum was Welsh! My Welsh is limited to some hymns that we sang in church in my youth and I cannot spell anything.

: Research:
: A.J. Ellis, "Anglo-Cymric Score," 1877
: Iechyd da!

: Cymru am Byth!

: PS what are the odds that we have one here who is Welsh and worked on Native American reservations?

: FYI: Navajo, most all Pueblo and Apache
: reservations. Truly the best years of my career.

So the resemblance of "pedera" to "pederast" and the resemblance of "pimp" to "pimp" are coincidental? And following "teen," at that. ~rb

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