Motion or sound?
Posted by Word Camel on February 22, 2002
In Reply to: Research posted by The Fallen on February 22, 2002
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: : : : : : : : : : And we could mention knockers, a mild vulgarism for breasts ... which makes the British music hall song "knockers up, ladies, knockers up..." particularly amusing to us Yanks.
: : : : : : : : : Thank you for sharing.
: : : : : : : : A guinea to a dollar says that "knockers" was originally UK slang. I have no proof, but it just sounds like it should be.
: : : : : : : I'm a little embarrassed to admit I did a word search through the text of Fanny Hill, wondering if knock might turn up. It does, though two out of three times it is to do with doors. The other time alludes to a door, though it's not really a door - and it's the wrong door actually - but either way, it isn't quite what we were looking for.
: : : : : : : Anyway, I'm wondering if any one knows approximately when and where it was first used this way? Maybe if we knew this, we could work out where it's from. Is it cryptically indicated in the definition from the slang dictionary? I wasn't sure about the meanings of the apprevations.
: : : : : : : I'm after that guinea. How many dollars to a guinea do you suppose?
: : : : : : I was trying to direct the discussion towards the wholesome topic of knock-knock jokes. But noooooo.
: : : : : : KNOCKERS - ".the vulgar KNOCKERS (1940s and 1950s)." From the "Wordsworth Book of Euphemism" by Judith S. Neaman and Carole G. Silver (Wordsworth Editions, Hertfordshire, 1995).
: : : : : : " 'Bosom,' 'breast,' and 'tit' (meaning teat) all date from Old English, before the Norman invasion of 1066. Calling the complete female breasts, especially well-developed ones, 't i t s,' 'melons,' 'breastworks,' 'boobs,' 'boobies,' 'knobs,' and 'knockers' may be fairly old, but such words were seldom batted about widely until World War II, when pin-up pictures and the American male's 'breast fixation' made them a very popular part of the language." From "I Hear America Talking" by Stuart Berg Flexner (Von Nostrand Reinhold Co., New York, 1976).
: : : : : The Dictionary
of American Slang, ed. Wentworth & Flexner, 1960, says "Although an old term,
very common since c1940."
: : : : : The OED doesn't have "knocker" in this sense, but it has another, perhaps related sense for the word: "Slang. A person of 'striking' appearance, or who moves others to admiration. . . . [Representative quotation:] 1620 MIDDLETON They're pretty children both, but here's a wench Will be a knocker."
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: : : : Door knockers. Think about it. Breasts sort of rest on the rib cage like the moveable joint on a door knocker. Why would they be referred to as a *pair* of knockers otherwise?
: : : : Just a late night thought...
: : : : Camel
: : : They would be referred to as a pair of anything because there are two of them. Go to bed. -- rb
: : I'm sorry. The horse is still coughing and there is a very cross Belgian chef here with me urging me to flog it to death so he can start preparing lunch.
: : What you say is undoubtably true and sensible, but I can't help but think that, we refer to a single 'breast' or a single 'boob' but no one ever talks about a single 'knocker'. I have a mosquito bite on my right knocker? I admit it's possible, but I've never heard it. Besides, a knocker on a door is usually situated just about at the same height as a breast is situated on a woman.
: : And that's my last word on the subject of doors.
: : C
: This is said without any prurience, but I've found a couple of references that claim that the origin of the term "knockers" has nothing to do with doors, but rather derives from the motions that an unfettered pair might make. This would tend to fit in with the thought that the usage of the term "knockers" usually refers to examples that are more, rather than less, ample in size.
I think a knock is motion with sound - not just motion. Anyway, if what you are saying were true, they'd be called flopps.