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Slight Tangent

Posted by ESC on January 19, 2000

In Reply to: Slight Tangent posted by Bob on January 17, 2000

: : : : : : : : : : I'm hoping not to curve this educational and fun forum but I have an arguement to solve with friends.
: : : : : : : : : : Call it a phrase or a technicality but does anyone really know the truth about what constitutes someones name (phrase)to being a "junior" vs. 11 (the second).
: : : : : : : : : : I was told that the American rules are not the same as the England rules. If your first name only is the same as your parent but your middle name is different then your are a "junior".
: : : : : : : : : : But, if your first and middle names are the same as your parent then you're considered 11 (the second).
: : : : : : : : : : Please help. And forgive me if I pivoted too far.

: : : : : : : : : Neither the term 'junior' or 'II' are used in the UK and if there is a rule it is 'don't use that silly American expression'. I should say that if you referred to a young person as '******** junior' they would construe it as a term of abuse and punch you on the nose - in impolite society such as down in the public bar at the 'Dog and Duck' pub.

: : : : : : : : : Hope this helps.

: : : : : : : : You all over there in Englend have bars with names like "Dog and Duck" and think we Americans have silly expressions? Our bars have nice sensible names like "Mom's" or the "Dew Drop Inn."

: : : : : : : Now real English Pub names are interesting in that they originally all had painted signs which depicted some simple scenes, e.g., Plough and Horses, Eight Bells, The Kings Arms, etc. The population in those early days of the 14th and 15th centuries were, in the main, illiterate and travellers who couldn't read the words under the sign used the scene on the sign to identify the Pub - which was usually an hotel of sorts.

: : : : : : Oh. So that explains it. We just waited until neon lights were invented. The illiterate and travellers could find their way by looking for the giant martini glass.

: : : : :
: : : : : Take that attitude if you must, let's hope you're happy with it and it gives you comfort. I was working on the principle that Native Americans in the 14th & 15th centuries didn't use pubs a lot and that the early settlers were an erudite lot who embraced learning and would have been mortified to find, amongst their number, a significant percentage of illiterate travellers. What am I saying???

: : : : What does all this have to do with the man's question about "junior vs, "II"? Does anyone know the answer?

: : :
: : : Not a lot really. I regret dragging the train off the tracks so to speak. In my defence I claim I was encouraged by 'ESC' and abetted by the title 'Slight Tangent'.

: : Not to worry. I answered Mary under another "track." But seriously, what's with the pub names? If you don't mind my asking. I've never been to England (and with college tuition bills coming up, probably never will) but I read a lot of murder mysteries set there. In one there was a pub called the Rat and Carrot (nicknamed Rotten Carrot). Is there a tradition behind the names of pubs? Our bar names are not nearly so imaginative. One I saw recently -- the Looney Tunes Lounge. Although we do have a copycat English pub in town, St. George and the Dragon.

: I saw a book of photographs a few years ago, where the photographer had over a period of years shot pictures of bars called the Dew Drop Inn -- there were hundreds of them! Strange hobby, but an interesting chronicle. (And off on another tangent, I once employed a fun-loving young lady who had pictures taken of herself and her husband at every vacation spot and landmark, positioned so the landmark came out of the top of her head. Eiffel tower, palm trees, you name it. Hilarious.)

It sounds like a bestselling book to me. Let's contact Ophrah.