Posted by Smokey Stover on July 21, 2005
In Reply to: Re: Nother posted by Bob on July 20, 2005
: : I notice people use the phrase "and whatnot" and after reviewing the comments posted on your website, I am still not clear if they are using it properly.
: : It seems as if the word is meant to refer to various knickknacks or the shelf holding knickknacks, but has become used in a similar fashion as et cetera. Are they using it properly? Can you please provide further clarification on the proper use of the phrase?
: : Additionally, I have noticed people ending sentences with "and what have you" in a way similar to how they use "and whatnot". I used the phrase finder and could not find "and what have you". Can you tell me something about this phrase.
: : Lastly, can you please confirm that "nother" is not a proper word. I did not believe that it was but people who disagree with me have referenced me to websites that give a definition as if it is.
: : Thanks very much. MJB
: 1. Using "and whatnot" the way we use "et cetera" is proper. It no longer is exclusive to knicknacks.
: 2. "And what have you" is in that same category. Likewise "and you name it."
: 3. "Nother" is not a word that would be used by a majority of educated people, which used to be (and still should be) the standard by which a word is regarded as standard usage. Bear in mind, the word does exist, and is usually described as "informal" or "slang" or "substandard usage." It might be used in ironic fashion by people who know better, but not seriously.
: The popularization of the word "nother" resulted from an advertising campaign about 40 years ago for Winchester, a "cigar" that looked a great deal like a cigarette, but with a brown wrapper. Because they defined it legally as a cigar, they could advertise it on television, and (thanks to a loophole in the tax laws) charge lower prices than cigarettes. To the public, it was portrayed as not a cigar, not a cigaretter, but "a whole 'nother smoke." The product eventually may have died (I believe it did) as did many of the poor fools who bought and smoked them, but the slogan lived on as a catchphrase, and many things (even to this day) are described as "a whole nother ______" So, yes, the word does exist, but if you want to use "proper" English, I'd avoid it.
Bob, you are quite right. I was hung up on the use with little things for the "whatnot," but obviously "and what not" has the same range of uses as "et cetera."
But as for "nother," and "that's a whole nother story," that phrase never even entered my mind. There are some uses in England past (and possibly present) that are not cute ways of saying "other." I would guess they are mostly dialectal, but what do I know about British usage? SS