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Re: Time is the remedy for everything?

Posted by Brian from Shawnee on December 17, 2004

In Reply to: Re: Time is the remedy for everything? posted by Smokey Stover on December 17, 2004

: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : Can anyone explain to me the meaning of

: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : "Time and straw make the medlars ripe"?

: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : Why straw? And what are medlars anyway?

: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : JC

: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : Medlars are a fruit which has to partially rot (bletting as I believe it is known) before it is edible. This takes time, and I think that traditionally they were packed in boxes of straw to allow the process to take place.

: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : DFG

: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : Spot on as always, David. My edition of 'Trees and Shrubs' by F. A. Bush (I kid you not!) has:

: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : Mespilus germanica (Medlar) . . . If the fruit is wanted it should be left on the tree until late October and stored until it appears in the first stages of decay; then it is ready for eating. More often the fruit is used for making jelly.

: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : Since it's a UK publication, I presume 'jelly' equates to the US 'jello.'

: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : We have jelly in the U.S., too. "Jell-O" is the brand name of a popular instant gelatin dessert.

: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : One of the frequent areas of transatlantic confusion. There are two types of jelly in the UK - jelly the dessert (popularly known as jello in the US, I believe) and jelly the set fruit preserve that you either a) have as a relish with meat (cf. cranberry jelly with turkey) or b) occasionally spread on bread and butter. Then there's jam, which is like jelly in sense b) but which is not translucent because it contains loads more fruit pulp.

: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : In the U.S., we don't call a dessert "jelly." That word is reserved for a sweet product whose chief use is as a spread. Jelly contains NO fruit pulp. It's made from fruit juice and sugar, with pectin to thicken it if the juice came from a fruit low in pectin. That's homemade jelly. Lord knows what's in the commercial stuff. The cranberry relish served with turkey is called cranberry sauce here. Jell-O served as a dessert is considered a form of pudding, or close to it. (How else would it be served? Well, you can make salads with it.)
: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : --rb

: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : Looking at the titles, I was sure someone would have already quoted "That must be jelly 'cause jam don't shake like that." Said with a lascivious leer, of course. I did a quick Google, but couldn't find a reliable original source. Anybody? It's been quoted forever.
: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : Anyway, in the U.S., we're almost totally consistent. Jelly is clear and wimpy and without pulp or interest. Jam is mostly fruit. But we do occasionaly hear "cranberry jelly." Jell-O is a registered trademark and a platoon of lawyers will remind you if you lower-case it.

: : : : : : : : : : : : : : I'm surprised no one has picked up the ball on marmalade. A lot of orange marmalade is eaten in the U.S., but I have the feeling that it is more at home in England. SS

: : : : : : : : : : : : : Marmalade: A clear, jellylike preserve made from the pulp and rind of fruits, especially citrus fruits. Rose's lime maramalade is an intersting variant.
: : : : : : : : : : : : : Etymology: French marmelade, from Portuguese marmelada, from marmelo, quince, alteration of Latin melimlum, a kind of sweet apple, from Greek melimlon : meli, honey; see melit- in Appendix I + mlon, apple.

: : : : : : : : : : : : Jam Session (n) an impromptu jazz concert, musical performance
: : : : : : : : : : : : Ferdinand "Jelly Roll" Morton (September 20, 1890 - July 10, 1941) was a virtuoso pianist, a bandleader, and a composer who some call the first true composer of Jazz music. Morton was a colorful character who liked to generate publicity for himself by bragging. His business card referred to him as the "Creator of Jazz and Swing". Morton's "Jelly Roll" nickname is a sexual reference and many of his lyrics from his Storyville days were vulgar. Some of the Library of Congress recordings were unreleased until near the end of the 20th century due to their nature.

: : : : : : : : : : : 'Jam session' - either because they made 'sweet music' or because the stage was jammed with musicians - take yer plectrum.

: : : : : : : : : : : 'jelly-roll' - seem to recall this being a roll of bank-notes with which the possessor could purchase the lovin' services from women of negotiable affection. it got you some jelly in your life.

: : : : : : : : : : : L

: : : : : : : : : : Bob: "It Must Be Jelly ('Cause Jam Don't Shake Like That)" 1942, words by Sunny Skylar, music by George Williams and J. Chalmers. It was apparently a big hit that year for Glenn Miller.

: : : : : : : : : I see. But what is the actual meaning or usual interpretation of the saying? Time is the remedy for everything?

: : : : : : : : : JC
: : : : : : : : Yes. Time heals all wounds. Time wounds all heels. Time will tell. Everything in time, and a time for everything etc.

: : : : : : : "All things come to those who wait" might be another way of saying it.

: : : : : : 'Give me that good jelly'..... I think it refers to KY Jelly.

: : : : : How old was the expression? K-Y jelly has only been 'mainstream' for a limited period of time - esp. in the UK.

: : : : : 'jelly' was underworld argot for gelignite and I think I have heard the expression 'jelly-man' for safe-breaker.

: : : : : we have not mentioned 'jelly-babies' or 'jelly-tots'.

: : : : : L

: : : : So, someone has been watching Dr. Who. Well, why not? New para. Alfred Nobel did not discover nitroglycerin, but he discovered how to manufacture and handle it for making explosives. In 1875 he learned that it could be "jellied" by mixing it with collodion in certain proportions. The product has two main virtues: it resists water damage, and it can be more or less poured, to conform with holes and other shapes that a solid cannot easily fit. Nitroglycerin is the main ingredient of dynamite, also a product of Nobel's lab. The jellied nitro can absorb various other additives, and dynamite can be made on a base of ammonium nitrate. Mixed with fuel oil, this product makes a cheap and deadly explosive, as exemplified in the Oklahoma City bombing. It, too, can be jellied, I believe. Gelignite is a dynamite using an adsorbent base of potassium nitrate. Chemistry, anyone? SS

: : : The jelly referred to in the lyrics isn't K-Y. It's the natural substance that K-Y replaces or supplements. --rb

: : Jose Carlos suggested that the saying might mean "Time is a remedy for everything." If this is a saying, then it's close to a paraphrase of a slogan in ancient Greece: "Ho iatros chronos." (Time is a healer.) Funny how much Greek there is in the language. Iatros, meaning doctor, turns up in geriatric, iatrogenic, psychiatry, and a host of other familiar words. Medlar: there is a discussion of medlars in Giovanni Verga's "The House by the medlar tree," (1890? Tr. into English many times, notably in the 1980s. I read it in Italian, but I remember damn-all about it.) SS

: Although by now everyone surely knows what madlars are, here is some of what the OED has to say: "The earlier English word for medlar is OPEN-ARSE n., which is attested in Old English.
: 3. slang. {dagger} a. The female genitals. Also: a prostitute; a disreputable woman.
: a1616 SHAKESPEARE Meas. for M. IV. iii. 167 They would..haue married me to the rotten Medler....1623 SHAKESPEARE Rom. & Jul. II. i. 34 Now will he sit vnder a Medler tree, And wish his mistresse were that kind of fruite, As maides call Medlers, when they laugh alone." SS

Well that definition introduces even more gender confusion to As You Like It, when Rosalind threatens to graft Touchstone with a medlar.