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Re: Infant mortality

Posted by Keith Rennie on December 02, 2004

In Reply to: Infant mortality posted by Lewis on December 01, 2004

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: : : : The original posting refers to the a traditional english expression which is more commonly "skeleton in the cupboard" (i.e. shameful long-kept family secret such as a murder) and has nothing whatever to do with closets, water closets etc. The English phrase predates probably by centuries any references to "coming out" which are C20th US.

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: : : : : : : : Come out of the closet or come out -- means to begin to participate in the homosexual social and sexual life. It was originally "homosexual use" in the mid-1900s. From "Slang and Euphemism: A Dictionary of Oaths, Curses, Insults, Ethnic Slurs, Sexual Slang and Metaphor, Drug Talk, College Lingo and Related Matters" by Richard A. Spears (New American Library, Penguin Putnam, New York, Third Edition, 2001).

: : : : : : : : A second reference talks about the Gay Liberation Movement or Gay Lib "which encouraged homosexuals to 'come out of the closet' and to work for equal rights for homosexuals. Such new attitudes were reinforced by the American Psychiatric Associations's decision in 1973 to remove homosexuality from its diagnostic and statistical manual after finding that homosexuality per se was not an indication of mental illness..." From "Listening to America" by Stuart Berg Flexner (Simon and Schuster, New York, 1982).

: : : : : : : : I am guessing that the phrase grew out of the expression "skeletons in the closet."

: : : : : : : I thought this had come up before - I think 'closet' is being used in the sense of toilet cubicle. toilet = water closet (WC).
: : : : : : : cottagers use public toilets for gay sex - hence their sexual activity was 'in the closet'.
: : : : : : : much better for gay people to be allowed stable monogamous relationships without being villified - don't people think?

: : : : : : : L

: : : : : : Yes.
: : : : : Which "closet" is the source depends on whether it's UK or American, because the term "water closet" is strictly UK. That sense of "closet" is not used in the U.S. To us, closet means only a clothes closet.

: : : ..................................................

: : : do any of you know where the skeleton comes from? Why does it belong to this phrase?

: : : Jose Carlos

: : Its exactly the same in french, Un squelette dans le placard. Yeah, when a dead body is there closed in a cupboard for a very long time, what you have left is a skeleton. And the how the body of a long-lost loved one who supposedly died decades ago in the swamps of Amazonia, got instead to be a skeleton still hidden in the family manor, without ever resting in a grave is because of Foul Play long ago, which everybody in the family knows about but nobody will ever talk about. Or else the cops or even worse the lawyers might come and there will be all hell to pay-heirs dispossessed and the like. What worse or socially more dangerous secret to have to hide forever than the murder of a loved one? Makes you think it must have happened quite a few times, hey? What intrigues me is not the existence of the skeleton, but the guilty family insists on keeping it in the cupboard and not buried in the cellar, which is what parricides usually did with the evidence?

: infanticides were the most common skeletons in cupboards.
You just destroyed one of my cherished visual images, which is the full size patriarchal/matriarchal skeleton falling terrifyingly out of the cupboard when the door is finally opened after a century of neglect. I prefer to think that the unwanted babies were just cut up and boiled into lard.