Posted by Lotg on November 29, 2004
In Reply to: Re: Bee in your bonnet? posted by Brian from Shawnee on November 29, 2004
: : : : : : aparently there were five major flags in the U.S.
: : : : : :
: : : : : : There were many, many more, but the first flag was the Bonnie Blue flag which was a solid blue flag with a single star right in the middle. Now the Bonnie Blue flag was the unofficial flag of the Confederate States of America. It was never officially adopted, but it was an extremely popular flag and there is a song written about it from that period.
: : : : : : Then secondly there is what is known as the first 'National Flag", which is sometimes cal led the Stars and Bars. Now there is a problem and I am going to deal with it a little bit later. But the Stars and Bars looked a lot like the Stars and Stripes and there was a conflict because of that.
: : : : : : Then thirdly there was the second "National Flag", which is referred to as the stainless banner. It just had this symbol in upper left-hand corner and then it was pure white. The only problem with the stainless banner was when the wind was not blowing and it was folded, it sometimes looked like a flag of truce or a flag of surrender.
: : : : : : And then Fourthly we have the third 'National Flag' and that was the same stainless banner but with a solid red bar all the way down. It was officially adopted, but very few of them were issued. And then of course, we have the Confederate Battle Flag as we know it. Interestingly enough the first four flags are very rarely spoken against because most people don't even know about their existence and they are totally, absolutely ignorant of them and so consequently it is the battle flag that catches most of the flak.
: : : : : : can any of our american friends bring some light into
: : : : : : it and perhaps tell me if otyu have heard the expression 'write the stars and stripes on someone'
: : : : : American from West Virginia/Kentucky here. I've never heard "write the stars and stripes on someone." Country kids would get whipped with a switch and that would leave "stripes."
: : : : : About the flags, I don't know what to say. Since my family was mostly in West Virginia, I assumed that we were on the Union side. But I did some researched and learned I had family on both sides. Brother against brother. My great grandfather, George Washington Smith Sr., fought and died on the Confederate side. He didn't own any slaves. I guess he just got drug into the war like a lot of people. So I could be a Daughter of the Confederacy. Which I thought about doing just to put a bee up people's noses.
: : : : :
: : : : : Which bring me to the question, why do some people display the Confederate battle flag? I don't believe it's about racism for most or even about history. It's more about viewing one's self as a rebel. You might find this book interesting: "The Civil War in Popular Culture: A Reusuable Past" by Jim Cullen. It has, for example, a chapter about Confederate Mythology in Rock and Roll.
: : : : Flags can embody quite a lot of history - but somebody said to me a flag is only good if you can recognise it in black and white.
: : : : the US and British flags meet that test - as do Portgual, Brazil and a lot of Asian countries, but there are many - particuilarly the variations on the cross or tricoleur (both ways round) that would fail that easy identification test.
: : : : L
: : : "To put a bee up people's noses." If you say so. But it's not the way I heard it. SS
: : Well Lewis I think the Australian flag would probably fail that black & white test too. Unless you have a keen eye and count the stars. It's so similar to the Kiwi flag it really is NOT funny. And of course with a Union Jack on it to suggest we're still 'owned' by the poms.
: : There are of course many people for and against a republic who'd like the flag to be changed. I'm one of them. There's nothing particularly interesting or different about our flag. I'm not necessarily a republican (I think we should, but I also think we should be careful about how we go about it, and consider the slightly modified 'if it aint VERY broke don't fix it' theory).
: : Olympic and Commonweath Games highlight how totally bland our flag is. When New Zealand and some other Commonweath countries win gold and the flag goes up - often people have no idea whether it's us or them (sometimes we're not all that sure ourselves if we haven't been paying attention).
: : I'll say this about the American flag. If nothing else, it's very individual. You can be left in no doubt about what country it belongs to. And I'll bet it passes the black & white test. ---GODDESS
: Let's play flag trivia! The most recognizable flag in the world, in black & white or in Braille, would be the flag of Nepal. It's the only one to my knowledge that isn't even a quadrangle!
: As for the Australian flag, has anyone proposed a new flag? The natural choice would be one with a kangaroo, wouldn't it? Unless that's considered too cartoonish for a national flag.
Haha Brian. Kangaroos are for tourists! (Although we do have a kangaroo and emu on our coat of arms.) Yes there have been myriads of proposed new flags and myriads of competitions. But until we settle the republican (thus constitutional) debate I don't think we'll settle the flag issue. We've still got that pesky Union Jack up there.
There have long been two other flags that have run in parallel and that are oft used as alternatives. One is the Eureka Stockade flag. The Eureka Stockade was a rebellion and the flag (which I rather like and would pass the black & white test) has a navy background with a large white cross in the middle. At the end point of each section of the cross is a large white star, representing the Southern Cross.
Our existing flag has a navy background too and is comprised of the Union Jack in the top left corner and the Southern Cross (white stars) makes up the rest of it.
The other alternate flag that's often used, but usually only by indigenous Australians is tri-coloured - black, deep burnt terracotta colour, and burnt orange. These colours as far as I'm aware signify the black (aboriginals), and the red sun and the burnt summer colours of the Australian desert.
Because this flag is pretty much confined to indigenous people, I can't see it ever becoming the official flag. Also there is so much more to Australia than desert that I think it tells the wrong story. And because the Eureka Stockade flag signifies a white man's rebellion - I can't see that making it either unfortunately (cos I do like that flag).
So who knows what we'll end up with.