Posted by Tjintheville on November 22, 2004
In Reply to: Primordial posted by Lewis on November 20, 2004
: : : : : : : (Gary--I hope it's ok to lift a thread like this from the archive; it's just that this one didn't get much input before disappearing)
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: : : : : : : Posted by DH on November 18, 2004
: : : : : : : I have encountered a subtle form of sex discrimination which the PF'ers, being connoiseurs of words, might find interesting: There is evidently no feminine equivalent of "ladies man," which yields thousands upon thousands of hits; whereas "gentlemen's woman" evokes only a half-dozen
: : : : : : : While "coquette," "vamp," and the like suggest only flirting; "siren," "seductress," et al bring to mind also sexual activity.
: : : : : : : The closest I have come so far is the slang, "player," which however is de facto applied to men not women. It is as if mankind (or at least the word purveyors) cannot conceive of a woman who dates many men, or plays the field, without her being a slut
: : : : : : : : I think Dale, it's just one of those imbalances in our social thinking (historically anyway). Don't forget in 'those' days you were allowed to differentiate between men and women.
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : : : Granted some of the differentiation was not desirable - such as this - where by implication, a man who ummm... gets about with the ladies is something of a hero, yet a women who 'gets about with the men' is a slut. I must admit, that is one differentiation that I would actually call discrimination.
: : : : : : : : BUT - it's all part of the history of our language and who we were and the foundation that's lead to who we are now.
: : : : : : : Lap, well put--DH
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: : : : : : SO, I go thru all the permutations---
: : : : : : a boy's boy, a boy's girl, a boy's man, a boy's woman
: : : : : : a girl's boy, girl, man, woman
: : : : : : a man's boy, girl, man*, woman*
: : : : : : a women's boy, girl, man*, woman?
: : : : : : a Mother's boy*, girl, little*man, woman
: : : : : : a Mama's son, daughter, husband, wife
: : : : : : a Father's boy, little*girl, man, woman
: : : : : : a Father's son, daughter, husband, wife
: : : : : : a Lady's boy, girl, man*, woman
: : : : : : a gentlman's boy, girl, man*, woman
: : : : : : he is all boy, she is all girl, he is all man, she is all woman
: : : : : : WELL perhaps not all, but it is strange how hit and miss it is.
: : : : : : 2k4nov18th16:40,lnb
: : : : : How about "party girl" or "free spirit"?
: : : : a lady of sporting morality? SR
: : : "a woman of generous affections" sounds genteel and quite positive.
: : : I do remember that there was an expression for a woman who liked being around men and was not 'girly' - I remember it being applied to a radiographer I met. She was voluptuous and enjoyed the attentions of men, but did not get on with other women very well, I suspect because she appeared to know just how to give herself 'presence'. My then girlfriend was most scathing about her being a "man's woman, not a woman's woman" and pretty much warned me against even thinking about talking to her, let alone anything else.
: : : Despite not being slim, I can recall her wearing a low-cut red dress and looking fantastic - yet when she X-rayed my ankle at the local hospital - in her radiographer's uniform, she was barely recognisable as the same woman.
: : : L
: : Lewis this distrust by 'womens women' of 'mens women' is a primodial thing. I think it's a primitive competitive self-defence mechanism.
: : It's a funny thing about SOME (and I do stress only some) womens women that despite being so, they appear secretly to wish they were mens women. Hence they metaphorically hiss like cats at women they call mens women. There is a pathetic, insecure jealousy they, I think inadvertantly display when they see a woman who is well liked by men for whatever reason. They question what it is they lack in themselves and why the men don't like them so much.
: : It is of course a standing joke - one I use myself quite often (but in my case, I REALLY AM joking - well, MOST of the time), that if another women's gorgeous, then she must be a bitch. And if you get to know her, and she turns out to be really nice and intelligent and you can't help but like her - then she's a MAJOR BITCH! Haha.
: : But what I find is the saddest part is that these womens women don't seem to realise that it's their suspicious or aggressive or threatening or negative or insecure (or all of the above) posture towards men that puts them off, rather than that the other girl is better. They don't seem to twig that it's not necessarily that the other girl is more attractive, it's sometimes that they are making themselves less attractive. And I don't just mean physically.
: : I also find that some so-called mens women, are really just people women (I'd like to think I fall into that category) - who just like people in general and have no need to collude with or be shielded by only one gender.
: : I think it's an insecurity borne of earlier times when women had to compete to ensure they got the best mate. Those who operated the system better - won!
: : OH - and BTW, please note that I am sure there ought to be an apostrophe somewhere in mens women and womens women, but it occurred to me that I wasn't sure where. I suspect it should be "men's women" - but as I was unsure, I opted for the cowardly approach and ommitted them altogether. ---GODDESS
: the ex in question was "primordially" jealous, whereas my wife just accepts that my eyes/attention will stray. she admires other men (e.g. Gary Lineker - former England striker and TV pundit) I accept that too and I paid over £100 for an autographed piece of football memorabilia that he signed - the difference is that she trusts me to keep my likings at that level, whereas the jealous one would have had a fit.
: for the record - men can be bitches too though - witness a bunch of guys react to a smooth stylish man who walks into the room. meow
It's no surprise to me that there's no equivalent to Ladies Man, for a female. Why would there be?
It would be hoped the distinction of being simply a Lady, sufficient.
As for the Ladies Man, he'd do best to try & establish himself as simply, a Lady's man.