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On a lighter note

Posted by Lotg on October 18, 2004

In Reply to: Re: Cain's wife posted by ESC on October 17, 2004

: : : : : : : : : : last night, I went in to a gas station to buy a couple of things. two friendly, african workers helped me. at the cashier station, they asked me if I was my brother's keeper. I hadn't heard the term before and I had some difficulty understanding due to their accent. I asked them to repeat the phrase, and they continued to explain. I had a nice conversation with both of them for a while, somewhat holding up the line ;) yet, I still do not completely understand the meaning of this phrase/term. I found it on this site, and it looks to have some religious origin. any comment would be appreciated.

: : : : : : : : :
: : : : : : : : : It sounds like they were evangelical Christians trying to recruit you. To be your brother's keeper in Christianity means to take and interest in your fellow man and to share his burdens in the way that Christ is supposed to take on the suffering and shoulder the burdens of all mankind. It's a way of asking you "Are you a Christian"

: : : : : : : : When Cain came back from the fields without Abel, Eve, his mother, asked him, "Where's Abel?" He responded, "Am I my brother's keeper?" Eve did not answer directly, and the interesting story unfolded without any answer at all, except what one might read into it. Talmudic scholars may have supplied an answer, I don't know. Everyone who wants an answer has to answer the question himself. Liberals tend to answer, "Yes, you are. WE are." That is, we are responsible for the welfare of our brothers and sisters, of helping those who have fallen to get up, and to try to keep them from falling in the first place. For brothers and sisters read, fellow members of the human race.
: : : : : : : : The conservative answer is, "Hell, no! Why should I waste time and money on my fellow citizens not directly related to me. Let all those other poor bastards accept individual responsibility. If they can't do that, screw 'em!" SS

: : : : : : : I could well be wrong here, as it is a long time since I took any interest in matters Biblical, but I thought that God, after Cain had killed Abel, asked Cain where his brother was (pointless if God is omniscient, but no matter) and Cain replied 'Am I my brother's keeper?'. The point being that we are our brothers' keepers in the sense that we are responsible for their welfare.

: : : : : : Greetings on Sunday morning.

: : : : : : From Bible Gateway. American Standard version of the Bible:

: : : : : : Genesis 4
: : : : : : 1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
: : : : : : 2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
: : : : : : 3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
: : : : : : 4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
: : : : : : 5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
: : : : : : 6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
: : : : : : 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
: : : : : : 8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
: : : : : : 9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
: : : : : : 10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
: : : : : : 11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
: : : : : : 12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
: : : : : : 13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
: : : : : : 14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
: : : : : : 15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

: : : : : WHAT IS INVOLVED IN BEING OUR BROTHER'S KEEPER?

: : : : : 1. Teaching him the gospel. (Mark 16:15, 16)
: : : : : Mark 16
: : : : : 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
: : : : : 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (King James Version)

: : : : : 2. Loving him as we love self. (Matt. 22:39; 1 John 3:17)
: : : : : Matthew 22
: : : : : 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
: : : : : 1 John 3
: : : : : 17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

: : : : : 3. Restoring him when he falls. (Gal. 6:1; James 5:19-20)
: : : : : Galatians 6
: : : : : 1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
: : : : : James 5
: : : : : 19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
: : : : : 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

: : : : : 4. Sharing his burdens and joys. (Gal. 6:2; Rom. 12:15)
: : : : : Galatians 6
: : : : : 2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
: : : : : Romans 12
: : : : : 15 Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.

: : : : : 5. Doing good to him. (Gal. 6:10)
: : : : : Galatians 6
: : : : : 10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

: : : : : 6. Helping him when he is in need. (Eph. 4:28) "Steal no more." The very opposite of selfishness.
: : : : : Ephesians 4
: : : : : 28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

: : : : : 7. Treating him the way we want to be treated. (Matt. 7:12)
: : : : : Matthew 7
: : : : : 12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

: : : : : http://www.preachersfiles.com/love/000726.htm Accessed October 17, 2004.

: : : : Then there is the parable of the whale and the herring, inseparable friends. One day, the creatures of the reef were surprised to see the herring by himself. "Where," they asketh, "is your companion the Whale?" He replied, "Am I my blubber's kipper?"

: : : Did you get that from The Preacher's Jokebook?

: : Plainly I got some of my facts wrong, and should have consulted the Bible Gateway. Still, even if it was the Lord that asked Cain where his brother was, Cain's question, "Am I my brother's keeper?" renains unanswered. The Lord was wroth with Cain because he murdered Abel, not because he was a poor "keeper." The fact that Cain's punishment was exile is an interesting milestone in the history of crime and punishment. Cain's mark, unlike that of Hester Prynne, was designed to keep him alive, not to punish him. So he went out to the land of Nod and had children by his wife. Wife? Where did Cain and his children and the other descendants of Adam and Eve find wives? Did God create only one man, Adam, but a ton of women? Looks like. As for the message sent or not sent by the tale, I wish more people would have taken away the meaning accepted by David FG. SS

: Where did Cain and his children and the other descendants of Adam and Eve find wives?

: Not a problem:

: Matthew 3
: 9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

You guys have delved heavily into the biblical origin of the term. But on a day to day usage level, this term is one I'm familiar with, usually when someone wants you to act on behalf of, or speak for someone else. eg. 'Where was your brother on Saturday? Hell, I don't know, I'm not my brother's keeper.' ie. It's not up to me to be responsible for my brother's actions or whereabouts.