Posted by Lewis on September 23, 2004
In Reply to: Re: Received wisdom posted by Lotg (Okker accent) on September 23, 2004
: : : : : : : The accent of one who has been through the elite school system in the UK is distinctive. The question is -- how can this accent replace the original accent of boys from all over the country who presumably have developed their speech patterns when they get to school?
: : : : : : This accent is fairly rapidly disappearing from British, especially English, society. You only have to hear either Princes Harry or William to hear how current Public School characters speak - very much like lots of other people with what has come to be called 'BBC English'. However, this is changing too, with many regional accents to be heard.
: : : : : : Presumably the children do inherit their speeech patterns from their childhoods, but many are influenced by radio and TV programmes - see above.
: : : : : Funnily enough, I've heard quite a few people with public school accents adjusting theirs to sound more common. Accents are more fluid than GB Shaw would have had us believe.
: : : : "In England, one accent has traditionally stood out above all others in its ability to convey associations of repectable social standing and a good education. This "prestige" accent is known as RECEIVED PRONUNCIATION, or RP. ....Accents usually tell us where a person is from; RP tells us only about a person's social or educational background." From the Cambridge Encyclopaedia of the English Language -- 1995. See web page at www.Yaelf.com/RP.shtml for a fascinating discussion of this accent.
: : : : Perhaps 'received' in this phrase refers to the acquisition of the accent at school rather than in the formative years in whatever region one was born.
: : : "The accent of one who has been through the elite school system in the UK is distinctive."
: : : I'd need much more evidence before I could accept this statement as true! It makes rather a lot of assumptions. Is there really a uniform accent that is attributable to education in the elite school system in the UK, rather than the society that the pupils come from? What diverse accents does the author think that the pupils had before they entered the school system? In what way does the author think that the accents change?
: : : Which particular schools does the author have in mind? Would a child from a priveleged home who went to an elite school have an accent different from a sibling who didn't? Does the Queen share this distinctive accent? If so, how did she acquire it? If not, how does it differ?
: : : Does the author think that it applies to schools today or a generation ago?
: : : Received means "accepted as true or worthy", as in received wisdom.
: : A public school accent is no longer to my knowledge taught in any way - the days where a dropped "h" or an unpronounced final "t" would be pounced upon by a belligerent English teacher have long gone.
: : I think that it's aspirational and implicit peer group pressure that causes certain schoolchildren and indeed students to change their accents quite deliberately. To back up this assertion, I'lll quote the example of a current English male movie star with whom I was at University. When he first arrived, he had a slight but noticeable estuary English mode of speech and pronunciation - but such was his desire to mix with the bright young things (and a sadder, more effete bunch of individuals you'd be hard pushed to meet), that within a term he too had assumed the languid diction of the Old Etonians, and sounded like he had stepped straight from the pages of "Brideshead Revisited".
: : Mind you, this has served him in good stead, since he's forever being cast as the stereotypical genial uppercrust English romantic lead (a fact fraught in an even greater irony, but that's another story and one I'm not prepared to risk a libel case over).
: Travel Junkie's original question was: "The question is -- how can this accent replace the original accent of boys from all over the country who presumably have developed their speech patterns when they get to school?"
: As far as I can see anyone can quickly acquire a different or 'altered' accent, if they so choose. Although children and youths are probably more genuinely susceptible I think. But I do think much of it is chosen.
: I once had a friend (and I do mean ONCE) who visited America for 4 weeks and came back with the most appalling hybrid accent. I frankly believe she put great effort into this (with a hideous result in my opinion). I travelled around America (the northern version I should clarify) for around 8 weeks and funnily enough, upon my return, sounded pretty much the same as when I started. Although I will say this, there were times when I had to actually 'fight' inclinations to certain intonations. I think if you hear something often enough, you can quite accidently adopt that sound or accent.
: However, on the other hand. I've mentioned before that I'm a girl from the Victorian bush, and despite having lived all over the country, I am told I still sound like a girl from Wangaratta. So it seems old habits die hard (if you choose). BUT maybe not always because you choose to. A certain extremely well travelled (as in world travelled) American friend (who shall remain nameless in the interests of PF anonimity) claims that because he had to speak at many functions, he eliminated his New York accent in order that he be more easily understood.
: Well, I'm here to say (in the nicest possible way of course), that we've spoken a few times over the phone, and he's having himself on. As an Australian, I could hear that New York accent come shining through. I told him as much and I don't think he liked it.
: But I love it. What could be more wonderful than retaining your heritage? OK, he possibly reduced his accent, made it sound milder (I can never know), but he never lost it no matter how hard he tried.
: Yet I hear Mel Gibson and Anthony LaPaglia sound like full-on Americans and it is truly weird to me, given previously they had broad Australian accents. Poppy Montgomery loses it and slips occasionally. I can't blame actors for obliterating their accents if that's what it takes for them to get work - but maybe even those who think they've lost it, haven't completely.
People can change the way they speak without intending to - when we discussed accents some time back, I mentioned that in the years I have lived on the Surrey-side outskirts of London, my speech has sounded increasingly 'posh'. Perhaps it is because I have mixed so much with professional people from this area, but even when I am using unprofessional speech I sound a bit 'Surrey' - and nobody has ever said that they can tell I wasn't brought up here. Admittedly, I'm only 60 miles Sarf/Soith of my birthplace, but my speech has changed. when I listen to my own voice on the radio it does sound less affected that it sometimes feels, but it has been a gradual slide into Surrey-English, which has much in common with RP.
Sean Connery however, always retains his accent (should that be 'brogue'?) - amazing that he has been allowed to sound himself throughout his career.
So far as 'outing' celebrities is concerned - I would like to out "Will" from "Will and Grace" - as NOT being gay. (It will probably turn out that Tom from "Gimme, Gimme, Gimme" (Dreyfuss) is the father of six children and welds monster-trucks as a hobby)