Posted by Lotg on January 28, 2004
In Reply to: 'S poor discussion about wankers posted by Lewis on January 26, 2004
: : : : : : : : : : During a deep & meaningful session at the local pub, the term wanker was raised (as oft is in a pub). The the lads, showing an unprecedented interest in the origins of our language wondered how the term had come about. (No pun intended).
: : : : : : : : : : Anyway, we all presumably know what the act of wanking is, but the question raised was, why is this seen as derogatory when it's such a common activity? And therefore, why has the term wanker come to mean someone who is a well errr wally?
: : : : : : : : : Well, "He's such a jerk" has the same origin. The activity is common but is nevertheless a source of shame. I suspect that the basic idea is "He's so undesirable, he can't find a partner."
: : : : : : : : Most insults in the English speaking world are either sexual, whether the activity is carried out alone or in company, or scatological.
: : : : : : : Well I just learnt something, as I so often do on this site. I've never before heard the word 'scatological', and now that I've looked it up, I now understand the insult associated with the word 'scat'. Although when I was but a mere ankle biter, mother used to say 'scat' to get rid of me.
: : : : : : : Oh how things change over time.
: : : : : : Scat, cat! This is from the English language. Scat, meaning a piece of excrement left by an animal out where some zoologist can find it, is not. It is a back-formation derived from the word "scatology" (from a Greek root), used so that the zoologist or whoever does not have to say "turd" or some other word not considered suitable to the drawing room. Of course, if the turd--excuse me, scat--is fossilized we can call it a coprolite, a word perfectly suitable to mixed company. My geology professor told me about a field trip he was on, led by a senior geologist who found a coprolite in a cave. He explained it thus: "Obviously a creature crept into the crypt, crapped, and crept out again."
: : : : : It has just occurred to me that perhaps Lotg may not have known that her mother, when she said "Scat," meant "Begone," or "Scram," "Twenty-three skidoo." This was the only meaning of the word until sometime after WW II (if I'm not mistaken). Scat from scatology is a neologism, and a bad one, although it seems to have wriggled itself into the langage--alas! SS
: : : : I'm reminded of a visit I made to the small museum located within the ancient stone circle of Avebury in Wiltshire (England) in 1959. One of the exhibits, sitting there proudly amongst the artefacts found at the site, was identified as prehistoric dog excreta - clearly scat had not, at that time, acquired international status as a neologism.
: : : Thanks SS, yes I did know that's what mum meant (although I took every opportunity to ignore her when possible - he he). I was pretty much saying the same thing as you. That in my youth scat simply meant scram, but now it seems to have evolved as an insult derived from a word meaning excrement.
: : I would be very surprised if anyone used the word "scat" in order to insult anyone. Its meaning as excrement is used only by scientific types in learned discourse (as far as I know), and yes, it's derived from the Greek word for s h i t. There is yet another use of scat, which I neglected to mention. Ella Fitzgerald was known as a "scat singer." This refers to a style of singing, not to its subject matter, and has no unsanitary connotations. This, too, is obviously a fairly recent use of the word. SS
: scatty or what?
: scientists often use 'spoor' to describe animal turds. it's a bit to similar to 'spore' for my liking and errors are bound to happen.
: as regards 'wanker' - I suppose it goes back to puberty when males get somewhat unexpected erections (my most unexpected was at school during French (too much info?)) and of course they then discover a way to get rid of them (not during French!) the pleasure of orgasm is coupled with the fact that growing up is a private matter and of course the problem that our parents never ever got themselves off and having children was some kind of miraculous and immaculate conception too.
: the common leg-pull when I was at school was to ask another boy 'have you ever been caught wanking in the bath?' the answer would be 'no!' to which you would say 'must keep the door locked then'.
: the newly functioning teenager doesn't get much opportunity to share their discovery with members of the opposite sex - and even then asking to be given a quick tug risks derision or rejection, so it remains a solo pursuit for a while. that is the point at which being called 'a wanker' is the most devastating - it exposes something private and the risk of not being accepted by the opposite sex.
: Being frank about 'getting yourself off' may be all right for adults, because most adults have some degree of reassurance that it is not the only option (after all, we may be able to cook a four course meal and have the ingredients in the fridge, but don't we often settle for a sandwich?) for a teenage boy - it seems that a woman doing the wanking (or other pleasurable substitutes) is a long way away.
: with the humour and tv that we have these days - it should be easier for youngsters not to get hung up about flying solo, but human nature being as it is - 'wanker' will doubtless remain an insult implying unattractiveness and uselessness.
: I suppose calling a girl a 'wanker' would be the opposite kind of insult...
: also - how come girls don't use 'frigger' in the same way? I've never understood how the 'lace tremble' seems ignored in the name-calling stakes.
Lace Tremble - ha ha! Suddenly I feel I've had a sheltered life (hardly). I've never heard that one. Is it a pommy term, US, what?
Anyway, somewhere way back in the thread, someone said that they've never heard the word 'scat' used as an insult. I'm afraid you may be showing your age, as I also did. I've heard this term used frequently between my teenage stepdaughter and her dubious friends. It must be a relatively new insult I assume. But like so many 'negative' terms, it's also become some sort of trophy. I've heard them use 'scat' to describe people or things they don't like, but also to describe cars they desperately desire to have. eg. That's a really SCAT car! As in, it's a fantastic car.
No wonder a poor middle-aged girl like me can have trouble following their conversations.