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Re: Waving my flag...

Posted by ESC on December 09, 2003

In Reply to: Re: Waving my flag... posted by masakim on December 08, 2003

: : : : : Can you please help me figure out what this means and how it came about? Thank you - SAx

: : : : From Merriam-Webster online:

: : : : HOLD -- 9 a : to maintain occupation, control, or defense of. The troops held the ridge.; also : to resist the offensive efforts or advance of. Held the opposing team to just two points.
: : : : FORT -- 1 : a strong or fortified place; especially : a fortified place occupied only by troops and surrounded with such works as a ditch, rampart, and parapet : FORTIFICATION
: : : : 2 : a permanent army post -- often used in place names

: : : : Origin: white settlers and soldiers in the Old West fighting to keep Indians from overwhelming them and taking over the fort.

: : :
: : : Yes, I know that a lot of online resources are dominated by the USA, but again - think about it!

: : : A 'fort' is the abbreviation for 'fortress' that has been used for centuries and has come to mean a defended position (with living quarters) of modest size and importance. For goodness sake, Roman legions occupied 'forts' which in the Forbidden Tongue they called 'castra' which may have derived from 'cedra' meaning seat or established place. English placenames ending "caster" or "chester" derive from such names - e.g. Doncaster, Lancaster, Winchester, Porchester, Rochester and of course, Chester itself.
: : : It's like the Welsh word 'caer', I think (as in Caernavon or (bastardised?) Caedr Idris.
: : : (May my ancestors forgive my spelling of Welsh place-names). The other closely derived word is Cathedral, a bishop's seat.

: : : Fort or fortress, of course, derive from another fobidden word 'forte' meaning 'strong' - I may be able to claim they are Italian rather than the earlier Late-In and so not get banned from here.

: : : Pre-historic sites of encampment are often called 'forts' e.g. Iron Age Fort. No Native Americans looking to take people into Custer-dy there!

: : : A fort is a small strong-hold, pre-dating the American West by - what 4 millennia?

: : We said "hold the fort" first (but we weren't fighting Indians):

: : HOLD THE FORT - "Keep things going while I'm away. The literal meaning was to defend a position at all costs, and it appears to have originated with General William Tecumseh Sherman who signaled 'Hold the fort!' to another general from the top of Kennesaw Mountain during a Civil War battle in 1864." From "The Dictionary of Cliches" by James Rogers (Ballantine Books, New York, 1985).

: General John M. Corse, at Allatoona during the American Civil War in 1864, was told to surrender to the enemy as his situation was hopeless and life and blood would be expended for naught. However, he would not do so, explaining that General William T. Sherman had given him order [on October 5, 1864] to "Hold the fort at all costs, for I am coming" [According to _Mencken's Dictionary of Qutations_ , "Sherman says hold fast. We are coming."]. Apparently, however, what Sherman really ordered was "Hold out, relief is coming," but the erroneous version stuck and has been with us since that time. By the way, Sherman was supposed to have given the order via signal from atop Mount Kennesaw.
: The phrase is first recorded, by the OED, anyhow, in an American hymn ["Ho, My Comrades, See the Signal!" written by Philip Paul Bliss] from 1870.
: From "Take Our Word For It" (July 17, 2001)
: ----------
: "Hold the fort, for I am coming,"
: Jesus signals still;
: Wave the answer back to heaven,
: "By thy grace we will."

Then there's...

Hold On (I'm Coming)
(Hayes,Porter)

Don't you ever feel sad
Lean on me when the times are bad
When the day comes
And you are down
In a river of trouble
And about to drown
Hold on I'm coming
Hold on I'm coming
Hold on I'm coming