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Re: Seriously trusting

Posted by GPP on November 02, 2003

In Reply to: Re: Word Spy's phonetics - and grammar posted by Anders on November 01, 2003

: : I don't know about the site you mention, but I would like to address the use of "their."

: : If you will, please forgive me for being direct. The aversion to the use of "their" in the meaning you cite is a common complaint of pedants that don't bother to look in the OED before complaining (don't feel bad -- king pedant Jay Nordlinger over at the National Review made the same mistake).

: : According to the OED, "their" is, "used instead of ?his or her?, when the gender is inclusive or uncertain." (www.oed.com , s.v., "their" -- but you must subscribe, or be affiliated with an institutional subscriber).

: : Since the gender of your parent is uncertain (could be either, no?), "their" is eminently suitable.

: : And "fur.nuh.chur" is exactly how I pronounce "furniture."

: : : We're licensed to be pedantic on this board, I think, so here goes. Someone posted the link to Word Spy yesterday. I immediately was impressed by the site and joined the emailing list. Just now, however, I've come to take a closer look at the phonetics of the site. I became suspicious when I saw 'furniture' rendered 'fur.nuh.chur'. I thought: hey, where's the /I/? Then I checked Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary, which gives the /I/ for both British and American, cf. link below. But it gets worse: 'askable parent' is rendered 'ASK.uh.bul pair.unt'. Hilarious, right? But wait, there is more. An 'askable parent is defined as: 'A parent who is willing to answer their child's questions and who encourages their child to ask questions . . .' 'A parent . . . their child'! I know it's common; still, it's horrible. How can one trust such a site? (Seriously, I'm asking.)

: : : Anders

: Hi Frank
: What? You want me to PAY for such advice! Only when dealing with a self-impregnating hermaphrodite of a parent, with a personality disorder, is such usage acceptable.
: Anders

Anders, judging from some of your recent posts here I have guessed, possibly incorrectly, that although your command of English is enviable, this is not your native language. In any case, you are surely aware that probably more than any other language, English is a work in progress, constantly mutating. One could say that "English is as English does" (you can search this site for that phrasing substituting 'handsome' for 'English').

Taking you at your word that you are 'seriously' asking how can one 'trust' such a site as wordspy.com, the answer is a question in return: 'trust' for what? Wordspy serves an entirely different purpose from Oxford English Dictionary, or the Cambridge dictionary sites--it discusses neologisms and current street slang, such as 'askable parent', and gives on-the-fly pronunciations.

Before PC raised its ugly head, the grammatically 'correct' form of the singular pronoun for a person of unknown sex was 'him', 'his', etc. 'Their' is undoubtedly plural, but is now used more and more as the singular possessive pronoun to avoid the messiness of 'his or hers'. Actually this usage long antedates the 1960s. Merriam Webster Online (m-w.com) gives for 'their': "2 : his or her : HIS, HER, ITS -- used with an indefinite third person singular antecedent ". And American Heritage Dictionary (see 'they', at http://www.bartleby.com/61/22/T0162200.html) also gives a long and detailed usage note tracing the plural pronoun used in the singular back to 1300.

Probably the most respected and authoritative dictionaries are OED, which unfortunately is a pay site, and Merriam-Webster and American Heritage, both of which are free online. The easiest access to both of these latter, as well as to many other dictionary and encyclopedia sources, is through onelook.com. Cambridge is listed there as well, but Cambridge's utility leaves something to be desired.

I was very surprised to find that not only Cambridge, but also both MWO and AHD, rendered the middle syllable of 'furniture' as a short 'i', and none of them gave a schwa as an alternative. I agree with Frenk that this word is more frequently heard with the 'i' spoken as a schwa. To this, what can I say? The dictionaries are wrong; the 'i' in 'furniture' IS frequently--but certainly not always--pronounced as a schwa.

So the answer to your serious question is, well, you can trust wordspy, for what it purports to do. And if in doubt, look around further. "Trust but verify."

BTW, I've read recently somewhere, but don't recall where, about a baby with THREE different BIOLOGICAL mothers, and no father at all.