Posted by Bob on February 13, 2002
In Reply to: Re: Honky tonk posted by ESC on February 13, 2002
: : : : : : I thought of this because I happened to catch "Honkytonk Woman" on the radio. Looked up Honkytonk and found that apart from meaning a roadside bar with pickups in the parking lot, it's also an adjective used to describe a particular variety of ragtime. Anyway, the origin is unknown and I wondered if anyone here had any ideas.
: : : : : : Thanks,
: : : : : : Camel
: : : : : honky-tonk. The first printed use of this word
for a cheap dance hall featuring gambling or burlesque shows, in a February 1894
Oklahoma newspaper, described a _honk-a-tonk_ "well attended by ball-heads, bachelors
and leading citizens." No one is sure how the word originated. The British attribute
it to America, calling _honky-tonk_ "Negro slang," while one American authority
claims it is from the English dialect word _bonk_, "to idle about." Either way
_honky-tonk_ is a reduplication, with _tonk_ repeating the sound of _honk_. "...
It was nothing for a man to be drug out of them dead," testified a jazz musician
of an early _honky-tonk_.
: : : : : From "Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins" by Robert Hendrickson
: : : : : The honk-a-tonk last night was well attended by ball-heads, bachelors and leading citizens. (_Daily Ardmoreite_, February 24, 1894)
: : : : : These honkey-tonks ran wide open twenty-four hours a day and it was nothing for a man to be drug out of one of them dead. Their attendance was some of the lowest caliber women in the world and their intake was from the little, pitiful gambling games they operated, waiting for a sucker to come in. (Alan Lomax, _Mister Jelly Roll_, 1950)
: : : :
: : : : As far as I recall, the word "bonk", at least as used in Britain, definitely did not mean "to idle about." Is it just me, or does almost every term to do with Jazz music have a sexual conotation? A "jelly roll" for example, is an orgasm according to the recent documentary.
: : : : The onomatopoeia idea is interesting, but I'm not completely convinced. It seems to me that if they were that common in English there'd be some contemporary ones we could point to.
: : : The word "bonk" may be a typo for "honk."
: : : Eric Partridge, in _A Dictionary of Slang, The Supplement_, wrote: "Perhaps either a rhyming reduplication of _honk_, to make a honking noise ..., or related to N.W. England dial. _honk_, to idle about.
: : That would explain it.
: HONKY-TONK - noun. ".Origin. West. a disreputable, usu., small, establishment where liquor, gambling, and (esp. in early use) prostitutes are available; a cheap dance hall, casino, or saloon; (hence) a tawdry bar or nightclub. Now S.E. (Standard English) . Also (obsolete) honkatonk. 1894 in DA (Dictionary of Americanisms, Mathews): 'The honk-a-tonk last night was well attended by ball heads, bachelors and leading citizens.' From "Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang, Volume 1, H-O" by J.E. Lighter, Random House, New York, 1994.
: Another source has more information
about the jazz connection:
: honky-tonk n. rag-time music or jazz of a type played in the sort of insalubrious drinking saloons or dance-halls known as 'honky-tonks,' especially on the piano. Originally US. That 'drinking-saloon' usage dates from the late 19th century, but it is not known where it came from. 1936 'Swing Music': 'Superficially, 'Honky Tonk' is the musical interpretation of a train journey; fundamentally it is a twelve-bar blues.'" From "20th Century Words: The Story of New Words in English Over the Last 100 Years" by John Ayto (Oxford University Press, New York, 1999).
: And "to honky tonk" or "honky tonkin'" is also a verb meaning to drive around and visit a series of honky tonks in an evening. A practice also known as "jukin'" because part of the evening's entertainment is playing the jukebox:
: HONKY TONKIN'
: Words and music by Hank Williams, Sr.
: When you are sad and lonely and have no place to go
: Call me up, sweet baby, and bring along some dough
: And we'll go Honky Tonkin', Honky Tonkin'
: Honky Tonkin', Honey Baby
: We'll go Honky Tonkin' 'round this town.
: And there's the song that started this
: HONKY TONK WOMEN
: (Rolling Stones)
: I met a gin-soaked
barroom queen in Memphis,
: She tried to take me upstairs for a ride.
: She had to heave me right across her shoulder,
: Cause I just can't seem to drink you off my mind.
: It's the honky tonk women,
: That gimme, gimme, gimme the honky tonk blues.
I've heard what sounded to me like honky-tonk piano described as barrelhouse piano. Same thing?